"So, there's, I guess, a well-known sustainability benchmark or ESG benchmark called GRESB, and it stands for Global Real Estate Sustainability Benchmarking. A lot of the larger REITs or owners report into this benchmark. Basically, you report your ESG practices, and then, you get a score on how well you're performing compared to your peers. So, by being CRB certified, you do get additional points. So, we are recognized by GRESB and we're an industry supporter. So, you're also helping to improve your ESG performance as well."
-Dilan Cetinkaya
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:36] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to another episode of Sync or Swim, brought to you by Rentsync. From operational challenges to marketing mastery, we uncover the strategies, and technologies, and all things crop tech. Let's dive in as we explore the trends, tactics and insights that define the future of multifamily investments. Sync or Swim starts now.
[EPISODE]
[0:00:58] GL: All right. Hi, everyone. My name is Giacomo Ladas, and I'm here with another quick chat about something exciting coming into the rental housing industry and organization that we've been a real big fan of. So, if you've ever gone apartment hunting, you definitely know the challenge. Every listing does claim to be well-maintained or professionally managed or offer some sort of quality living. But how do you actually know these buildings live up to that claim? That's where the Certified Rental Building Program comes in.
Joining me today to talk all things CRB is Dilan Cetinkaya. Thanks so much for joining me today.
[0:01:26] DC: Thanks so much for having me.
[0:01:29] GL: Alrighty, Dilan. So, the Certified Rental Building Program. Can you give a little overview about what this program actually is and maybe what are your responsibilities within this organisation?
[0:01:39] DC: Yes. So, the Canadian Certified Rental Building Program, or CRB Program for short, is Canada's leading quality assurance and certification program for multi-residential rental buildings. So, essentially, it ensures that rental properties are well-run, well-managed, and well-maintained. They meet strict operational, environmental, and resident service standards. For owners and managers, it helps to ensure that your property is reducing its operational costs, mitigating risks, and improving asset performance. For renters, it essentially provides a stamp that this building is well-run, well-managed, well-maintained. In my role, I'm director of certification for the program, so I help our members in achieving certification, and I oversee all of the certification standards, training, the audit process, et cetera.
[0:02:36] GL: Awesome. So, it sounds like you have a light workload. I'm kidding. That sounds very busy.
[0:02:41] DC: Yes, it is.
[0:02:43] GL: All right. Let's get a little bit more, though. So, why was the CRB Program created and what kind of gap was it designed to fill in this crazy Canadian real estate housing market?
[0:02:52] DC: Yeah. So, I think it essentially helps like high quality owners and managers differentiate themselves in the market. Unfortunately, there are like, a lot of bad landlords out there. So, by having the certification, it shows residents that this property has achieved our rigorous standards, and that it's been verified by a third party. I think it's easy for any owner to kind of say like, they have great management, but without a third-party really vetting, that's true. It's hard to really kind of trust that. So, yes, it essentially just shows residents that you can trust that the property has met high standards for life safety and just overall management, cleanliness, as well as sustainability, which is a big focus. I'm sure we'll kind of get into the sustainability a bit later.
[0:03:46] GL: Yeah. You touched on a little bit how it might be hard to differentiate from other certifications or what people can link to be a certified. How does the CRB different from other quality claims or certifications that maybe renters have seen in the past?
[0:04:01] DC: Yes. So, I think in Canada, CRB certification, I'd say is really kind of like the only certification that focuses on the overall management of the building, and cleanliness, as well as sustainability. There are certifications such as like BOMA BEST. Those are heavily focused on just sustainability and it doesn't really kind of look at the building's condition, also, great programs. Then, you've probably heard of RentSafe, for example, which is a City of Toronto bylaw program.
What's different with CRB is, it's a voluntary program versus RentSafe is mandatory. So, generally, our members are going to be leaders in terms of management and sustainability because they're like paying into this program, and the standards are a lot more rigorous than rent safe. So, yes, I'd say that it's kind of like the difference, it's completely voluntary. Then, in terms of just like other general claims of quality living, again, because our program is third-party audited. You can actually trust that that's true rather than just kind of like a general claim that a manager may make.
[0:05:16] GL: Yes, I love that voluntary aspect of it. I think that's a great piece of information that would be nice for renters to hear, is that, these lenders want to do this. It's something that they think is going over and above for rental ecosystem. So, I think that's a great point. You touched on a little bit about the standards of building must meet to become CRB certified. Do you mind just diving a little bit deeper into what these standards are, what the key pillars are in order to get a certification?
[0:05:39] DC: Yes, there's three main requirements to achieve certification. So, the first one is being aligned with our standards of practice. So, the standards of practice, there's six key areas, which are human resources. So, that involves ensuring that the staff at the building receive proper training, things like health and safety related training, WHMIS, they have proper, whatever, eyewash stations, et cetera. The second is resident management, so ensuring that there's high quality for service and communication with residents. The third is operations management. So, ensuring that the property has strong maintenance and building performance standards.
Then, there's also financial and risk management. So, ensuring that the properties are planning for things like capital upgrades and have a plan for those upgrades. Fifth is environmental management. So, that focuses on energy, water, waste, as well as indoor air quality. So, having things like LED fixtures, low flow fixtures, so all those things benefit owners because you're spending less on your utilities, but also residents, because if you have LED fixtures in your unit, you're going to be spending less on your electricity bills or your water bills for like the low flow fixtures.
Then, last but not least is the state of condition, so ensuring that the building is clean, that there's proactive pest management policies, and just that it's overall well maintained. So, that's the first requirement. The second requirement is having all the property staff complete, are three training courses. So, all the staff receive training on environmental leadership, as well as accessibility, and diversity training. Then, the third requirement is doing an onsite audit. So, that's where an auditor will come onsite. They'll walk through all the common areas of the building to ensure that the building has achieved our program standards. They'll also review the management's policies that they have in place. Again, because a lot of our standards focus on having those policies in place. So yes, those are the three areas, the standards, training, and then, the audit.
[0:07:59] GL: Yes, I love the audit part too, so it seems like there's someone keeping accountability high at these buildings. How often does something like that take place? Is it just like once at the beginning or is it a follow-up process to kind of make sure it's occurring for the long period of time?
[0:08:14] DC: Yes. So, the certification is three years. So, from the on-site audit, the certification is valid for another three years. However, we do sometimes do random audits between that three-year period, just to kind of ensure that properties are maintaining certification. But generally, that audit takes place every three years.
[0:08:37] GL: No, I love it. It sounds like a lot. The fact that property managers, and landlords are willing to do this, and making this so cumbersome, I think is a great thing. I think that is kind of – that's what we're trying to do, especially at these kinds of conversations, the rentals, is kind of bring the renter and the landlord ecosystem kind of together, and be like, "Hey, they're each on each other's side. We're trying to create a really safe environment. This seems like a really good step forward for landlords to be like, "Hey, this is what we're willing to do. We're willing to get audited. We're willing to do all these different processes to make sure our building is great for you. So, I think we should go a little bit there. I think it's great.
Now, I'm curious though, because I think if we want to target landlords specifically now, how do you see this helping landlords and property managers? Because it seems like it's a great thing for renters, but how do you see it helping the landlord side of things?
[0:09:24] DC: Yeah, great question. Well, I think first and foremost, by having standardized procedures and policies, you're helping to kind of just streamline that process, like all of your staff are well trained on what's expected. But in terms of benefits, I'd say the first one is improved operational efficiency. So, by implementing sustainability best practices, again, you're reducing your energy bills or water bills. That all has a direct impact on your bottom line. Another major one is reducing risk. So, by ensuring that your life and safety systems are properly maintained and in place if you're reducing any sort of risks in that sense.
Another thing is, investors are increasingly more focused on ESG reporting or environmental social governance practices. So, there's, I guess, a well-known sustainability benchmark or ESG benchmark called GRESB, and it stands for Global Real Estate Sustainability Benchmarking. A lot of the larger REITs or owners report into this benchmark. Basically, you report your ESG practices, and then, you get a score on how well you're performing compared to your peers. So, by being CRB certified, you do get additional points. So, we are recognized by GRESB and we're an industry supporter. So, you're also helping to improve your ESG performance as well.
Then, again, just like the increased marketing, by having that certification, you're demonstrating to your residents that your property is well-run, well-managed, well-maintained. So, residents can trust that they're going to live in a high-quality building. So yes, I'd say like market differentiation as well. Then, just overall, by maintaining standards, you're going to also have less complaints from residents and just overall better satisfaction.
[0:11:23] GL: No downside, enhance your operations, can help mitigate risk, and these ESG objectives are really important right now. That's great. Excuse if this question is a little obvious, but just on the flip side, how does the CRB program help renters? I think we've touched on a little bit here, but let's hear that comparison of a landlord to a renter. How does it help?
[0:11:41] DC: Yes. I mean, I think, nowadays, you sometimes hear of these really scary religious horrible landlords that aren't containing their buildings. Again, none of our members really fit into that category. They're all leaders in terms of their management policies and sustainability practices. Again, we're verifying that they're practicing what they preach. It gives trust to renters that you're going to rent in a building that's properly maintained. Then, again, going back to the operational benefits and cost savings. So, for renters, if you're living in a building that has LED lighting or low flow fixtures, again, that's going to benefit you, assuming that you're paying for your utilities.
That, of course, impacts just your monthly expenses. And then, overall, just health and wellness. There's also our standards for indoor air quality. Again, it comes back to your health and overall well-being. Obviously, that's a huge benefit as well.
[0:12:45] GL: Yes. That's actually the exciting part that I find this, right? Not only does it reduce renter uncertainty before they even view a building. But once they do sign that lease, the goal is that this is going to improve the resident experience for hopefully years to come because this certification is not just a sign of approval to even just look at a unit, it's actually a lifestyle benefit. So, I think that's the exciting part about this. I don't know if you have stories specifically, but do you have any data, or stories, or just anecdotal experiences of this program's impact on tenant satisfaction, or even tenant retention by chance?
[0:13:19] DC: Yes. Often, our members will host resident barbecues, and we'll go out to those kinds of events, and get feedback from residents just how – unlike the overall satisfaction of the building. Yes, we do have testimonials also on our website, and a video just showing residents, and the value that they see in the program. Again, I think just another obvious one is, our members are never really identified in RentSafe programs or these other programs as the bad landlords. Generally, our members don't have those kinds of issues. So, yes, I don't have any, I guess, specific stats though. But yes, I feel like sometimes, no news is good news.
[0:14:07] GL: Absolutely, almost always, yes.
[0:14:10] DC: Yes. Every now and then, very rarely, sometimes residents will reach out to our program to let us know about some sort of issue that they're having in their building. Again, we're a resource for them to go to because we'll address it directly with our member as well, and ask our members to resolve any sort of issues. So, we're kind of just like another, I guess, place that residents can also go to if they're having any sort of issue, and we'll help to kind of address that with the property manager to ensure that it's resolved.
[0:14:45] GL: We're going to be sure to link, and hyperlink, and double link all your websites so people can actually read these testimonials, because I feel like those are often the best part of these programs, is actually hearing from people who use it. So, we do encourage our listeners to make sure that you check out the show notes because we're going to have links to see actually the success stories that we're seeing from this program.
Right now, I think I want to circle back a little bit to the whole sustainability side of CRB program. The Living Green Together designation, that is something that I'm sure is exciting for a lot of people who are interested in this program. How does it work alongside CRB specifically?
[0:15:20] DC: Yes. So, Living Green Together, so all of our properties that are CRB certified are also Living Green Together certified. The Living Green Together kind of just refers to the environmental standards that are part of the program. What that kind of entails is having things like an environmental policy, an environmental preferred purchasing policy, having LEDs, again, or low flow fixtures, having a waste management program, and then, also products that have low VOCs.
Yes, Living Green Together really just kind of refers to those environmental standards, rather than being kind of a separate certification. So, yes, all CRB buildings are also Living Green Together certified.
[0:16:05] GL: Awesome. No, that's great to know. That's obviously a big part of this industry now, is the whole sustainability side of things. That's part of why rentals, I'd say, wanted to be a part of it. I think, the whole point of this conversation now is an exciting thing that's happening between organizations. So, CRB certified properties, for those who don't know, are now highlighted on rentals.ca. How do you think that's going to make the rental search a little bit easier moving forward, now that we have some synergy between the two organizations?
[0:16:31] DC: I think for renters, again, it provides that quality assurance, and you can trust that, that building is well managed. So, I think it'll hopefully help make your next apartment search easier. And yes, you can kind of guarantee that it's not going to be a poorly managed building. So, yes, overall, I just think it'll help make the rent search easier for residents.
[0:16:57] GL: Yes, I think it's going to benefit both of our sides really well. So, I think it's just such an easy thing to bring together. Yes, I'm really excited to see it come together like that. I think a good way to kind of close out this conversation is, how do you get certified? What's the process for a landlord or property manager who might be interested in getting CRB certified? What do they do?
[0:17:18] DC: I guess the first step would be to register for the program, that's the step one. Then, it would be to kind of do a bit of a gap analysis to identify which standards you already have in place that are aligned with the program, and you know what's missing, and then, work to kind of prepare those policies or procedures. Then, the next step would be to do all of the training. So, as mentioned, all staff do three training courses that focus on just the program standards itself, environmental best practices, as well as accessibility, and diversity training.
Then, once all the training is completed, you would review the on-site audit checklist. So, basically, you would walk through your building, and look at all the same things that the auditor will be checking when they come on-site, and then, ensuring that you're achieving the standards. Obviously, you can need to make any upgrades doing so, and then, you would schedule the on-site audit. You'll receive your audit report if the auditor has identified any sort of issues that will be clearly outlined in the report. So then, you'll have to show evidence that you've resolved any of those deficiencies. Then, once it's resolved, you're officially certified.
[0:18:33] GL: That's awesome. I was going to ask you the kind of support that the CRB team offers during the certification process, but I think, you kind of answered that there, seems that there's an ongoing, there's training, and you're kind of walking step by step with these property managers along the way. That's what it really seems like.
[0:18:48] DC: Yes. We have a lot of resources for our members. So yes, the training is a big component. We also have things like checklists. Then, even post certification, sometimes our members need support in certain areas. So, if it's something like creating a building poster, a resident guide, like we have a pest prevention guide for residents or a sustainability and wellness guide for residents as well. So, we also support our members if there is some sort of need or pain points that they're having. We help to support them in resolving that or addressing that. I guess another part of the program is, we always want to improve and develop these resources for our members. So, if our members ever request something, we'll definitely work to help provide them with that resource, or whatever they're looking for.
[0:19:42] GL: Yes, it sounds like you're in pretty good hands. Looking forward a little bit, even though we're excited about this ongoing relationship already, but what's next for the CRB? Are there new standards? Are there new tools? What kind of is the direction that we're looking at to develop this program to go even further?
[0:19:59] DC: Right now, we are just working on new training actually. So, we're refreshing our training. Another thing is, so currently, one of our standards is, we require property managers to track their energy water and waste. So, we're looking to actually collect that data instead, and have our members send us their data. In that way, our program can help identify which buildings in the program can kind of benefit from energy efficiency upgrades or water efficiency upgrades. As part of that, we'll kind of have like a dashboard for our members to be able to track that.
Then, aside from that, we'd really like to kind of improve just overall marketing to residents. I think, members often know about the certification, but I think the general public kind of benefit from knowing about the certification program. So yes, just increasing marketing as well, and just awareness of the program, and its benefits.
[0:21:01] GL: I think a great first step is this conversation, if you ask me.
[0:21:05] DC: I agree. Yes, being on rentals.ca, it's probably a big one.
[0:21:09] GL: For sure. Okay, so let's kind of wrap this up with a really simple straightforward question. If a renter is listening right now, which of course they are, what should they look for to ensure that they're choosing a CRB-certified building in their rental search?
[0:21:22] DC: Well, they should go on rentals.ca and they should look for the buildings that are CRB-certified because that's like a live listing of units available now. Then, I guess another step would be to go on our website. We have all of our buildings listed that are CRB-certified on our website as well. However, we don't have a listing of available units, so rentals.ca would be kind of the go-to, to look for active listings.
[0:21:50] GL: We love that answer. Well, thanks so much. I think that's a great way to end our conversation. I think we've learned a lot. I've learned a lot, and I think this would be really beneficial for our audience specifically, and for the Canadian rental community in general. So, Dilan, thanks so much for joining us. We're going to have the show notes all filled with the information to understand a little bit more about the program, and hopefully, to get more sign-ups from landlords and property managers. So, thank you so much and we're really excited to kind of continue this partnership together.
[0:22:14] DC: Awesome. Thanks so much for having me, it was a pleasure.
[0:22:16] GL: You're very welcome.
[END OF EPISODE]
[0:22:18] ANNOUNCER: Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Sync or Swim, brought to you by Rentsync. If you enjoyed today's show, make sure to visit www.rentsync.com/podcast for detailed show notes, key takeaways and more. Thanks for listening