Technology is becoming a vital aspect of the rental space as, for one, it provides the opportunity for accurate property visualizations before they've been built; without having to view the actual building. As a leading PropTech company that develops and deploys innovative tech solutions for properties and residents, Gryd is one of the reasons that many landlords and renters are willing to embrace this new digital era. Today we are joined by the Vice President of Sales at Gryd, Josh Donen, who explains what his company is all about and what his role in it entails. We learn about Gryd's impressive technologies, how it works, and why the industry is clamouring to embrace it. Then, we look back at the pandemic as we discuss how the market reacted to it, how COVID swayed Gryd's new innovations, and how the pandemic inadvertently set new trends for the rental industry. We also discuss what a boost in rental supply may mean for the industry moving forward, why multi-market conferences matter, and the exciting work that Gryd has planned for the near future.
Key Points From This Episode:
- Josh Donen's background and what his role as Vice President of Sales at Gryd entails.
- The ins and outs of Gryd, and why there's an increasing need for its technology.
- How Gryd's technology works.
- The way COVID changed what Gryd prioritized in its innovations.
- How renters have become accustomed to digital renderings as a result of the pandemic.
- More on the increasing value of Gryd's technology offerings.
- Assessing how a major boost in rental supply may affect the markets.
- Why it's wise to attend rental conferences in other markets.
- Industry trends that Gryd is taking notice of, and what it has planned for the future.
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Links mentioned in today's episode:
"That's just it, that's the beauty of the technology now. You know, as much as three, four years ago for our company, it would always require someone going on site, having someone capture the space using some type of 3D camera or you know, an HDR camera. Nowadays, we take a collection of architectural plans, CAD files, elevations, any sort of finishing schedule and design inspiration and through the combination of those files, you can create these spaces from scratch throughout. So, CGI renderings, all of that is just built off of files that you can gather, so you don't have to go on-site anymore.” - Josh Donen
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:35.8] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to another episode of Sync or Swim, brought to you by Rentsync. From operational challenges to marketing mastery, we uncover the strategies in technologies and all things PropTech. So, let's dive in as we explore the trends, tactics, and insights that define the future of multi-family investments. Sync or Swim starts now.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:58.0] GL: And welcome to another episode of Sync or Swim, the podcast where we navigate the currents of the rental housing industry. I'm your host, Giacomo Ladas, and today, I'm joined by Josh Donen, vice president of Sales at Gryd. Josh, thanks so much for joining me today, happy to have you on.
[0:01:11.0] JD: Thanks Giacomo. Before I get into it, I need to start off, major props to whoever in your team came up with Sync or Swim. Brilliant name, love it, I had to start right there.
[0:01:20.6] GL: I will take full credit. It may or may not have been me. Okay, it wasn't me but I'm going to tell you, preferable to this, let's take some credit and say it was a collective effort there. So, the reason we want to have you on is because we haven't actually had this sector really talked about in the podcast yet. So, I figured that now would be a good time, especially with timing, with CFA coming up, and knowing that you're going to be talking at that event.
So, maybe start off, tell us a little about yourself, your role at Gryd, and what your day-to-day looks like, so people can get a little background of yourself.
[0:01:47.7] JD: Yeah, absolutely. So, as you mentioned, I'm the VP of sales at Gryd. I've been with the company now about four years. I work more so, on the day-to-day, I guess, working very closely with most major writs, property developers, managers, owners across North America, and before diving headfirst into the property tech space, I think I've worked in account management in marketing and sales capacity for approaching 10 years now.
And I think I learned, you know, pretty early on with Gryd, a deep passion for real estate and product innovation and just how quickly the space is moving and evolving and for the company itself, you know, how fast we're able to kind of adapt and proactively monitor trends in real estate. So, like most real estate companies and most startups rather, where everyone's wearing multiple hats, I also oversee the product innovation team.
So, I work closely with really, you know, incredibly bright and talented group of staff that are all focused on monitoring the real estate space and sort of identifying new solutions for our clients.
[0:02:48.3] GL: And maybe like, to get another step back, for those who maybe don't know, what is Gryd? Like, from someone who has never heard about it before, what exactly do you guys do?
[0:02:57.4] JD: Yeah, great question, the spiel. So, Gryd, we're a property tech company that essentially develops and deploys innovative tech solutions for properties and the residents. So, we've got two unique divisions of Gryd, Gryd Digital and Gryd Park. For the most part today, we're going to focus on Gryd Digital but Park at its core, really we're focusing on a very outdated, super inefficient component to real estate, being the parking sector.
And our tech stack is designed to optimize operations and drive revenue, whereas, on the Gryd Digital side, we are a real estate media 3D visualization and design company. We've got a full intense suite of tools really cater towards accelerating or levelling up the leasing process and visualizing spaces at any stage of development. So, preconstruction through stabilization, our team is basically constantly looking to evolve that leasing process.
[0:03:55.5] GL: So, it's the idea then that you could actually go into like, prebuilt construction building, your team can go in there and then you can kind of visualize through your technology of what it will look like in a couple of years from now.
[0:04:07.1] JD: Yeah, exactly. I think you kind of nailed it there. Where Gryd started, you know even, back in 2015 to where it was when I joined about four years ago, where we've since expanded is that full end to end. So, as you mentioned, seeing spaces preconstruction before shovels even hit the ground.
Now with the tools and technology of today, being able to visualize that space has this finished product with hyper-realistic renderings, interactive tours, and videos kind of having that exact same traditional media mix if you will, for stabilized assets or for as-built, having that exact same mix now exist in – for preconstruction.
[0:04:43.8] GL: Like, to me, it sounds really beneficial for, you know, a potential renter because if they are seeing – they go on a website and they have a hard time visualizing what the place looks like, they can have an idea but you see that developers also see like a real benefit from it as well because it's almost like the first time that they're sort of seeing what these units are going to look like staged or is it more towards like a renter focused leaning on what you guys do?
[0:05:05.1] JD: Yeah, I think the application, you know, while primarily driven for the end user are residents or renters, the applications for developers, from conceptual renders early on for the cities, for communities to kind of sell that vision. As you know, I listened to Dimitri's podcast on the episode before, and talking about like the lifestyle shift of purpose-built, I think that's really highlighted with this type of work now is, you're not selling the building itself.
But you're selling the idea, the community aspect, the vision behind it. So, that type of technology, I think goes hand in hand with you know, what developers are trying to achieve.
[0:05:40.5] GL: So, you must offer a lot of flexibility as to like, this is the type of building we're going for, this is a trendy loft or this is more of something for, let's say, seniors who want to downsize. I'm assuming that's a big part of what you guys do, right? Especially like, talking to developers and getting kind of like understanding of, �Hey, this is what we're going for, now, what does Gryd offer and what can they produce for us?”
[0:05:59.8] JD: As I mentioned, the application, it doesn't even necessarily only apply to the multi-family or development space. That same application is more condo developments, for single-family, for students living, where you know, outdated leasing processes and trying to freely separate for any of those. It's really moving into a modern era and what we've kind of noticed is that shift of what is a want to have versus a need to have.
It's totally moving, and a lot of that too, obviously is due to COVID, which I'm sure we'll talk about in a bit but what we've identified even as you said, you know, seeing a space, whether it be a loft or let's take a commercial example, a hair salon versus a coffee shop. What our technology can do now is take that exact same space and at the click of a button, be able to stage it in multiple ways and showcase for different demographics, different targets. So, it's quite fascinating.
[0:06:54.2] GL: Yeah, so, you guys are also doing retail office and commercial spaces then? That's pretty interesting.
[0:06:59.4] JD: Yeah. Really, it's all-encompassing here. The – you take office retail, historically a pretty old school mentality, a lot of, it's a handshake sort of relationship but what we've noticed as we slowly move back to that, like, hybrid work from home, in office model and as, even like vacancies and the office retail space, which is finally starting to stabilize that need for this technology is more apparent now than ever.
Where before, again, if you're working with big incorporations that have their set streams and schematics every time, they don't need to see what that space is but for a lot of smaller businesses, boutiques, they need to be able to see that space. So, again, whether it's a coffee shop or a law firm or a tech office, you know, being able to showcase it from shell condition while it's under construction, that type of technology now.
The ability to have these tools to see that space in multiple ways is exactly where we hope the industry continues to move.
[0:07:55.3] GL: I'm just kind of curious how much you can divulge in this but so, what's the process then? You go into the space, bring a ton of cameras, like, how does – what is the process going in order to accurately capture the space?
[0:08:06.0] JD: That's just it, that's the beauty of the technology now. You know, as much as three, four years ago, for our company, it would always require someone going on site, having someone capture the space using some type of 3D camera or you know or you know, an HDR camera. Nowadays, we take a collection of architectural plans, CAD files, elevations, any sort of finishing schedule and design inspiration and through the combination of those files, you can create these spaces from scratch throughout.
So, CGI renderings, all of that is just built off of files that you can gather, so you don't have to go on-site anymore.
[0:08:40.1] GL: So, you don't even really need a high dynamic range camera or anything like that to do any of this, right? I figured it would take like, bare minimum, we need something that captures the lifelike image as good as possible. Well, that's not the case anymore? That's interesting.
[0:08:51.0] JD: That's not the case and we're finding more and more that I guess, the need to have options for buildings at any sort of state, whether that be, you know, preconstruction, mid-renovation or completion, having a full suite of options and tools catered for that. So, I mentioned shelf space, you're mid-construction or project where people still want to have that, you know, traditional experience and going on-site.
Whether it be like a hard hat tour, which I got to do my first only a couple of weeks ago, it's fantastic but seeing a suite mid-construction, you know, still hard to kind of envision that brought to life and how that might fit with your furniture style. So, even for, as I mentioned here, like mid-construction projects, now, having tools that can bring shelf space to life or even before that.
So, pre-leasing efforts, that same style of photography, videos and tours, floor plans, you got that same mix now while the floor construction is completed.
[0:09:47.4] GL: Is that like a newer technology that kind of happened? Like, to me, it sounds like an outsider of this, like you know, when COVID hit, you know, we're not actually going to get your team to come into these buildings anymore. Was that like a tech that you guys developed in order to maybe successfully do your job without actually having to travel or was that maybe something you guys were already planning?
Because it seems like, like we know, when COVID hit, the industry kind of changed a lot and like, that seems like something that would have changed as, �Hey, we could do this without visiting your place anyway.” Was that already happening, is that a new technology?
[0:10:16.3] JD: It's not a new technology, and that I listened to Matt Livingston's episode kind of comparing the purpose-built rentals, those class A properties compared to like, the condo development space, and this type of technology similar to like a floor plan navigator has existed in that space for years and typically, it was only reserved for those premium properties because in the price tag associated with it.
Now, I think that what we found with iterations of the technology, being able to offer it in our specialties, the multi-family space. So, taking existing technology and trying to evolve it and I think that's going to be kind of a common theme for our conversation today, Giacomo, is you know, the evolution of property tech and 3D design and media there, we're not trying to reinvent the wheel. We're always looking at areas that we can improve upon what exists.
So, whether that means cutting down on the need for on-site capture and having a suite of options for that preconstruction side, we're constantly looking at ways to evolve pain points in the leasing process or operation side with parking as well, too.
[0:11:24.3] GL: Interesting. You kind of touched on it a little bit but I'm assuming like, with COVID, right? It not only like, prioritized the need for staging virtual tours but I would imagine with that, came a lot of new challenges for you guys but maybe a lot of opportunities to really present yourself as the way to go. It's like, "No.” Like, almost like a line was drawn in the sand, saying, "If you didn't have this before, you didn't have this virtual tours or virtual staging, now, you have to have it.”
Is that kind of what COVID brought out of this in your opinion and kind of how your company was able to adapt with that, because I feel like you're in that very interesting niche of this industry where COVID caused you guys to be even more necessary than probably ever before, am I right in assuming that or am I a little bit off there?
[0:12:09.5] JD: No, absolutely. I think you nailed it. In most cases, you know, where you tried to react to market trends, as soon as we identified where the industry was going, we proactively got on top of this with new product lines, essentially geared towards the major pain points or the unfortunate circumstances of COVID. You know, what I mentioned before, the kind of changing brand media standards if you will, the entire industry shifted from like a one tab for a tour was a nice little add-on if you will, to a need to have.
As people weren't able to leave their homes, we needed solutions that you could see space and you know, I did some homework here, reading a couple of reports and just like an interesting stat I wanted to share is that, I guess as a result of the pandemic if you will, renters have become so comfortable with a digital renting experience that 72% of renters say they would rent an apartment without ever seeing the property in person.
So, if that's not a glaring indication of how you know, trends are shifting, it really, unfortunately, moved the real estate space into the modern era because before people would rely on the in-person tours and really have to see that touch and feel to a space before they would make their decisions and now, that's changing, and I can even speak to that personally.
Like, when I moved from Winnipeg to Toronto, AKA Las Pegas, I didn't have that opportunity to see a place to rent because it is such a competitive market that I had to rely on the media for you know, for my now home.
[0:13:42.5] GL: That's interesting too because I thought as well, because of COVID, people don't even want to visit buildings or leave their house because of the fear of the virus but also because of COVID, people realized that they didn't actually have to live in the city that they work anymore because they can just work from home.
So, I think that adds an extra layer of this too, you have tons of people who are moving province to province now, who weren't before and they actually don't need to live in these dense cities anymore. So, that just adds another layer to it as well.
[0:14:11.1] JD: Yeah, absolutely, and that's sort of that mentality has shifted and we've noticed that with many of our projects now, incorporating a work-from-home aspect to their suites, that one plus den or two-bedroom suite, now our clients want to be able to showcase that space, either as a home office or as a guest room, as a home gym, etcetera.
It's the perfect fit for the type of technology that we're rolling out because you know, the ability to see a space, whether that be staged, unstaged, to toggle between the two, and help envision it with what your furniture set may look like and how you may utilize that space better, I think that speaks volume to the information and the opportunities that buyers, renters, leasers, etcetera, you know, they've got more information readily available today than ever before.
So, it makes it more competitive so that when you are focusing on you know, class-A purpose-build rentals and those lease-ups, it's about most important to be able to show off the real benefits of the entire building, not just the suite. People want to see what the amenities are going to look like and historically, when you look at a construction process, they'll rush to have one or two model suites completed.
And then everything else is about three to six months delayed, so they have no way of kind of showcasing this. So, kind of going back to where we've you know, found an opportunity is to offer that style of an immersive interactive tour of the amenity spaces, of the exteriors, of the community well before construction is completed. I think that's one of the major benefits we're seeing now.
[0:15:47.9] GL: I was going to ask you that, you kind of touched on it because there's a lot of things going on I think now in multi-family space where it's kind of becoming a mix of it's rising up to what condos used to be but also renters are now expecting a little bit more out of their purpose-build rentals, probably lace that in with more premium rents that are being asked for right now.
So, I'd say not to say amenity spaces are almost just as valuable as what the suites are going to be like as well. So, you are saying that not only are we doing this for virtual tours of the suites but we're also branching off into the amenity spaces of a building as well.
[0:16:20.9] JD: Yeah, and I guess from our perspective, we look at the entire building as a lease-up experience, right? So, from a click of a button, I can jump from any of the available suites to the amenities. I think that ties in really well with what you know, our friends over at Rentsync are dealing with the floorplan navigator and that's a total immersive experience, one centralized platform.
And I think that there is such a benefit to that combination of having high-quality media assets that tie directly into the availability of the suites because people want to know what that specific you know, it's going to look like. So, tailored options for floorplan for availability, jumping into the available or the amenities and really the selling features of the building. It's a common concept and for marketing, it's, you know, difficult enough to bring someone onto your website.
And it is just as difficult if not as expensive, to keep them on your site. So, what sort of tools and what sort of engagement opportunities do you have? And that's why for us, we believe tools like an interactive floorplan navigator, these are the way that websites are moving. It is a virtually driven experience that is never going to take over the in-person. I think that there is always a need as much as for a number of you know, buyers, renters, residents.
They are going to want that in-person experience, to have that supplemented with you know, a virtually driven experience, ease of use, totally centralized like know some of the major benefits of kind of today's technology.
[0:17:50.7] GL: Yeah, and kind of circle around floorplan navigator too, like one of the big things that we love about it and what clients love about it is just – like it's really aesthetically pleasing, right? It's something that just adds a little bit more authority to a website by just having this interactive floorplan, which gives a prospecting tenant so many tools to see the building, right? And now, we're getting to like 3D tour space of the exterior of the building.
So, it adds a lot more to the site and just – if some buildings have this, they all want to have it, right? Because they're going to feel like they're being left behind, especially with the competitions that we're at now. So, I feel like you see a lot of, let's say synergy between what you guys are doing and the floorplan navigator and probably in the future, more trends come out and you'll just have more synergy together.
[0:18:35.0] JD: And that's what we've identified as well is you look at this comparatively to the condo space, where we got these super intricate 3D models, you're going on-site to a sales center and you know, clients are paying tens of thousands of dollars to have these materials developed. Well now, take a step back, simplify this to what, you know, the real purpose of a floorplan navigator is.
For us, it is a one-stop-shop to house all of that beautiful media, that content that you've created, and having that link directly as a live view of availability. So, from, as I mentioned before, like there's never been this much availability of information to buyers and to potential renters and residents here. So, having the options to see that real-time perspective to a buyer-driven market.
We all know that there's a housing crisis, so ensuring that your standard for a lease-up is up to what, you know, people expect these days, it's a necessity.
[0:19:37.0] GL: Yeah, I'm always wondering now too, like because you mentioned like we're in a housing crisis right now when there's a lack of supply. With the initials that are coming into place to increase supply into the Kennedy market, I feel like there is an avalanche coming of once we start seeing that large supply come into the market, well, there's going to be such an influx of new buildings, new websites, new clients that are going to lean to us like this.
So, I am always curious like you know, we stay pretty busy when there is a lack of supply. What's going to happen when they really start bringing a lot more rentals into the market? It's you know, I'm going to go optimistic but what that's going to be like. So, I think it's going to be quite an avalanche.
[0:20:10.8] JD: Yeah, I totally agree and I can always speak anecdotally here but in chatting with our agency partners, our consultants even in the condo space. Right now, everyone is sort of that standstill when you see who is going to be a first mover introduce new units to the market and as we wait for the rise of our purpose-build, that's kind of from our perspective, from Gryd's perspective really show the need to diversify and roll out the technology to different verticals, whether that be multi-family, single-family, student living, hospitality.
We've probably expanded operations into the US, where it's just a night and day difference between Canada here. And I will say, as someone who has been in the industry now for four plus years, being able to attend conferences both in Canada and US and see sort of the compare and contrast the two markets and be able to pull from the US market and bring it to Canada, it really is a unique opportunity.
And I would highly suggest, for anyone in the space, if you have the opportunity, attend one of these major conferences because there is a lot of value and a lot to learn from it and see how we can apply this into the Canadian market.
[0:21:20.3] GL: I guess kind of in short, then you're saying that the US market is just – they're a little bit ahead of us I guess if that's what you're saying. Like, when you go to these conferences like this, you're just – your eyes are open to a whole bunch of new things. At Canada, it's just a little bit slower to adapt in.
[0:21:32.9] JD: Yeah, I think so and really, the common theme there is just the state of the industry and with a lack of available units, there hasn't been that need to continually innovate and probably as much as it has in the US. So, I think the Canadian market, there are – I look at some of the you know, the buildings that we've pushed through, the marketing campaigns that people even in the multi-family space have pushed.
They go head-to-head with some of the best campaigns I've seen in US markets absolutely. I just think that the adoption to technology and the need for it that changing standard of that medium mix if you will, I think that gap is narrowing and people understand that you need to have premium media to be competitive in this industry.
[0:22:17.8] GL: Is that kind of need you think you're seeing, because I am curious, the new trends that are coming in the field because if we are starting to kind of pick up a little bit towards maybe where the States are, what are you seeing? Like, what are these new trends in the field? What are stuff that you guys are looking into and you know, maybe not giving everything away, like what's kind of in the pipeline coming?
And I know you're going to be talking at CFA, so I'm just kind of curious, like a little, maybe a little teaser about what not going to say but maybe a little tease.
[0:22:43.2] JD: Yeah, absolutely, and it's a great question Giac. I'm really excited to be on the panel hosted by Max.
[0:22:48.3] GL: Oh, yes. I should say this is hosted by Rentsync [inaudible 0:22:50.8] CEO, Max Steinman, shameless plug for our good friend there but yes, it is hosted by Max.
[0:22:56.3] JD: Absolutely, and also you know, to share the stage with Ryan Hunt from Fitzrovia too. He is an absolute expert in the industry. I'm really excited to kind of compare and contrast from the vendor side versus on operator side but what I will speak to as you know, the hot topics are, it's all generated around AI, AI, AI, and for us, from our perspective, how we can incorporate that from an operational standpoint and from a product standpoint.
You know, we've been trying to run tests. We have been running tests now for about a year and a half and it is very much in our roadmap to ensure that that is a major component of it and further to that, not just the use of AI but I think a common theme that you'll notice here is the importance of data and analytics and while there's already the toolset available through GA four and be able to track, what we're finding now with the amount of data we can collect is having like a hyper-realistic view of a suite by suite.
So, let's use the virtual tour for example. You compare two units and through heatmap technology, notice that the kitchen from one unit has 60% higher engagement than the other space and maybe that's because there's been a recent renovation. So, we can shift our marketing focuses to highlight what's actually garnering more traction, garnering more engagement.
So, from our perspective, just to give a little teaser here, I think our biggest focus is going to be about AI and how you can kind of harness the power there. It is going to be focused on data and analytics and it's going to be focused on hyper-custom content for – on the individual basis level and capitalizing on the trends in social media. I saw a fantastic presentation recently about short-form content through TikTok for on-site's.
And how they're using what they call, micro-influencers, so residents of the home to drive engagement and to sell the idea of the community aspect rather than just trying to sell a suite. So, that's a little teaser for what's to come about in our presentation.
[0:25:01.7] GL: Yeah, super interesting and it's kind of like, I would say I am consciously optimistic with AI and everything that it brings because anecdotally, who doesn't use it every day? It's been a great tool but I mean, Rentsync is implementing as well, right? You know, we have AI, ChatGPT right into our platform there to help property managers and landlords, right? Property descriptions and whatever they need there.
So, it's something that we're embracing as well but you know anecdotally it's like, "Let's make sure that there is some level of regulation behind all of these but I completely understand why that's the way to go and that's where we should go, which is kind of working smarter not harder with some things.
[0:25:33.7] JD: Yeah, and you know, one last I'll add here is the other side just like from a future trend perspective is tease the idea of the parking but parking as a whole, it's a terrible process and it is an outdated super inefficient aspect, where it's underutilized, the revenue opportunities there just aren't being recognized properly. So, combining some of those, the importance of AI with just a full stack to kind of capitalize on that.
We're trying to look at not just the leasing component of a building but the overall operation and how they tie in together. So, from a floorplan navigator perspective, imagine we're not just using that from a leasing perspective but we're tying that into the operations as well. So, that overarching look at a building from multiple angles, I think that's a really cool trend that we're seeing in the industry too.
[0:26:23.0] GL: Yeah, I never thought about that, just like parking being an outdated thing. I don't think like – but I think I'm sure a lot of people are like, "Well, how? I have a car, I have to put it somewhere. Why is that necessarily an outdated thing that's in?” maybe not to the industry but in general. It feels like that is something that's almost a necessity, you know?
[0:26:39.1] JD: Yeah, well, when it's 20 dollars to park downtown for 15 minutes there's probably –
[0:26:43.7] GL: Yeah, I hear you. So, I guess if anyone is interested in yourself or what Gryd does, what's a real easy way for them to kind of get in contact with you and your company, just kind of learn a little bit more?
[0:26:53.7] JD: Yeah, absolutely. Feel free to reach out through you know, the company website, gryd.com. You can email me directly, jdonen@grid.com. We have three Josh's at Gryd and I actually lost Josh of the Year to Josh Stoller, so shout out to him. That's a tough one but I accept it and finally, you know, LinkedIn. I'm always happy to engage and sit down for a coffee just to chat about current trends. Again, I'm very passionate about the industry, so happy to connect with anyone in it.
[0:27:22.4] GL: Awesome, that's great and I know what that's like because we have an army of people at Rentsync named Matt and I don't go by Mathew because that would be too easy, so there's a lot of Matt's to deal with but yeah, that's great and like I mentioned as well, you're going to be talking at CFA, you know, hosted by Max Steinman, our CEO and we're also going to have Ryan Fitzrovia join as well, who is truly knowledgeable about the space.
So, we definitely will be looking forward to that coming up in the next few months and yeah, again, thanks so much, Josh. I appreciate your time and I know you have a lot more insights to bring in a few months when you're on the side of the panel but I think this was a great introduction of what's to come, what the industry is, and kind of where it's going. So, I think it's going to be really interesting and I really appreciate your time. I know you're a busy guy, so thanks a lot for joining.
[0:28:02.9] JD: I appreciate it, Giacomo, and if anyone here is attending the Aim Conference in May or the Interface Conference in Austin for student living, we'll be there. So, feel free to come by and say hi.
[0:28:12.5] GL: Awesome. Well again, thank you so much and thanks everybody for listening. Make sure you rate and review the podcast wherever you listen. Until next time.
[0:28:18.4] JD: Go Jets, go.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:28:20.4] ANNOUNCER: Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Sync or Swim, brought to you by Rentsync. If you enjoyed today's show, make sure to visit www.rentsync.com/podcast, for detailed show notes, key takeaways, and more. Thanks for listening. Brought to you by Rentsync.
[END]
